Article Written By Tzvi Freeman at chabad.org
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3002/jewish/Why-Is-Conversion-to-Judaism-So-Hard.htm
My Last Comment First:
in response to Rabbi Aryeh Moshen:
Thank you Rabbi Aryeh Moshen. I appreciate your care in contacting me. And, the bridge between that "Rock and a hard place," may be closer than we could ever realize, just as the full redemption could occur at any minute. L'chaim!
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Re: Rabbi Aryeh Moshen I don’t believe The Book of Ezra applies to my situationTo Rabbi Aryeh Moshen, your December 4, 2012 comment bothers me that you could be so callous to say I must send away my wife to be a Jew. She is more than just a wife to me. She has also been a lifetime companion of mine. She was an acquaintance of mine since I was in 4th grade. Later, we became friends while playing in the same band together. Despite her Christianity, she has stopped attending church, which is a step in the right direction. She is not only a wife to me, but I have considered her to be my best friend for roughly 15yrs. She has never dated any other male; has never even romantically kissed anyone but me. This is not the situation of “The Book of Ezra.” So yes, in my youth I attended a Christian church. However, my dad was clear to me that he did not believe Jesus is his deity that he worships. I don’t know if my mom believes Jesus is her deity either. I think for my mom, to her virtue, Church is merely a way to plug into the community.
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Re: Rabbi Aryeh Moshen"I've also heard of Batey Din who do not want to convert couples unless all their children, including adult children are on-board."
Similarly, I totally agree because at first my parents worked against me in my religious pursuits. For example, my mom would hide or throw out my precious books that I used for study. I pay rent to my parents, and my dad threatened to raise my rent beyond what I could afford if I continued my Torah study. Sure, we could have moved. However, this happens to be the property of choice for me, and my family. My mom has changed, in tears about how proud she was for me to stick to my study path, and for me a life of Torah study is bringing together my family instead of breaking it apart.
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There is so much Torah to study without ever converting. The way I see it is that I don’t have to be a Jew to study or contribute. Why not opt in to observe mitzvos, even mitzvos I am not required observe as a son of Noah? My personal feeling is that if deeds are healthy for Jews, then they are probably healthy for me. I have studied Chumash, Daily Halachah, Psalms, and Tanya, with plans for others at chabad.org for several years now. I have no need to convert to be blessed by Jews. I hope that this generation will find ways to make peace with other nations of the world - count me in for that one! Jews studying side by side with non-Jews in study halls has the potential to heal hate.
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Re: Rabbi Aryeh MoshenI respect that answer ~ Thanks! I guessed that I was committing some sort of sin, but I had no clue as to what it was, or if I could get a different response as to whether or not it was fixable.
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Why Turn Away? Why not welcome?Years ago, when a Rabbi denied me access to show reverence to the Torah, it made me feel bad. I would think that if what the Rabbi had to offer was so good, then he would welcome me and show me what he has to offer rather than turn me away. Traditionally, folks invite people by welcoming them, not by turning them away.
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Re: Rabbi Aryeh MoshenThanks for the offer. I don’t know what I could give in return. I don’t believe it is right to frequent a Synagogue when I often have less than a dollar my account many times a year, and year after year. I trust in Hashem, not in money, but it is okay to have and spend money.
A Jewish older friend of mine loved would say, “No freebies.”
Since my marriage, there has never been a day that I have been without food, shelter, or clothing. Quite contrarily, I’ve been told that my family lives like millionaires. Whenever one door closes, another opens, may it be a blessing. Hashem, Himself, has taught me to trust Him fully, and that solving all our problems is mystically within the reach of our grasp. There is nothing to great to ask for.
Approach Him with an open mind, the mind of a child. Be careful not to be too bold in His eyes.
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Sad Judaism or Happy JewishnessThere is some sadness in my study of Judaism, especially practice of Judaism without a Jewish soul. What could one see more demoralizing? Maybe, I can flip the situation around, and use Torah to bring Light.
The story of finding individuality is a lesson Abraham taught.
It is as if there is a special mitzvah, a Torah mitzvah to be a unique individual, and/or another mitzvah to be a part of a greater group, such as a clan or a nation, such as the Jews.
I identify with many things Jewish in Torah, and perhaps, this is why Gd loves me. I identify with Abraham’s individuality, possibly because I have opted to keep Judaism in my life. Torah study of Abraham, is that of a Jew who took the courage to choose to a different side, monotheism. If I visited Abraham’s tent, he would have welcomed me, as Chabad welcomes folks.
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Re: Rabbi Aryeh Moshen - Dear Rabbi, I am confused.Correct me if I am wrong, but elsewhere on this site, it says that for potential converts it is essential to create a natural push and pull with Judaism.
How is permission to whine or to make things difficult not a part of creating a genuine Jewish push and pull?
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"Why Is Conversion to Judaism So Hard?"Ideally, potential converts should demonstrate a love for Judaism first, and then to have a matchmaker pair them in marriage, if they desire to convert. This is entirely different to meeting someone at a crowed bar where drugs, hormones, and chemistry inebriate judgments that many young adults hold onto so dearly as permanent truth but do not stand time’s test.
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Re: Rabbi Moshen 2b - continuedFrom a chabad.org email on July 27, 2015 - “Courageous, G dfearing, truthful, and money-hating. - Torah’s requirements for a judge, Exodus 18:21"
Why is there a financial requirement for those that are to become a Jew, but not a financial requirement for those that are born Jewish? Where do you find evidence to support that claim in Torah? As I proved, judges are supposed to loath money, instead of focusing on it and demanding it as a centrality! How is that not hypocritical to prevent people from converting because of financial hardship?
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Last Disaster? - Rabbi Moshen - Let's Hope So.Rabbi Aryeh Moshen, I hope you are right. The situation with Iran has me quite worried about WWIII. I think President Obama has done a great job because war has not broken out. He is showing Iran the grace of forgiveness through freedom of speech, which IMHO has the healing power of catharsis. Rather than allowing Iran nuclear tech, we should be helping Iran develop renewable energy instead. That way we could know because if Iran chooses nuclear tech over renewable tech, that would be intolerable. Tolerating Iran's anti-Israel and anti-USA speech is not a sign of weakness. Are you of the opinion that prophecy Ezekiel 38:16 has already been fulfilled? Looking at another popular Jewish website I see that this verse prophesies that "Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering" - Let's hope Mashiach is here, and the time for suffering and war is expiring into a thing of the past.
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Re: Rabbi MoshenWhat is "the Last Disaster?" Rabbi Moshen, are you referring to Ezekiel 38:16, an event yet to occur?
Also, with regard to this "Pledge of Allegiance" - it seems too inward. Recently I watched a video by Rabbi Aaron L. Raskin that suggests the entire reason for the Holocaust was that Jews were turned inwards by not focusing on teaching the nations of the world their inherent individual beauty, in addition to teaching the inherent beauty of the Jewish nation. Isn't it the very mission of the Baal Shem Tov, the founder of Hasidic Judaism, to bring the Light of Torah to the world, instead of focusing inward?
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I have a happy marriage with a non-Jew. So, that is a better reason why I should not convert. I would never leave her, especially in the name of religion.----Sorry!Rabbi Aryeh Moshen I owe you an apology. Thanks for setting me straight. I was under the wrong impression about the Mishneh. I thought that because it is canon, and the core of the Talmud, that all of it is both followed and academic. It amazes me how much there is to learn.
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Deception AgainIn the light of the following, Rabbi Aryeh Moshen does appear to be deceptive.
Mishnah Bikkurim 1:5
A. Rabbi Eliezer b. Jacob says, “A woman who is the daughter of proselytes may not marry a priest”
B. unless her mother was an Israelite.”
D. [and holds] even to the tenth generation
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"But if the ger does accept, then he or she is reborn as an eternal Jew, the same as any one of us who was born into the covenant. "
Dear Rabbi, I do believe that this article may be somewhat deceptive. The Talmud talks of 10 castes. Convert is one of those castes. However, the convert caste is lower than the Israelite caste. I would have a difficult time being a convert for that reason. Convert? Convert to what; being a permanently lesser caste? That sounds like a racial distinction to me more than what you are trying to make it out to be.
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Bad Monday Syndrome and Re: SimonI believe part of the reason so many people claim to have horrible Mondays is because they have essentially worked 7 day weeks. That is, even on their day off, they generally blow all their money on drugs, and feel like crud on Monday. The solution to this IMHO is to encourage everyone to rest on Shabbat. I see no reason to encourage people not to observe Shabbat with respect to lights, for example. I usually go to bed before Sundown most nights of the year due to my medication regiment. However, IMHO that is just Hashem providing me a way to rest my eyes, such that they don't get too much stress, and that I will have good vision for hopefully a long time. So, again, I don't see what is with encouraging virtually anyone to observe Shabbat, especially imperfectly. Is it to damage the eyes of goys through imperfect observance? That just doesn't make any sense. I am just using this as an instance to prove my point.
What is wrong with keeping a day of rest?"In fact, you are supposed to avoid keeping it perfectly until you have gone in the mikveh."
That quoted statement to me seems absurd. I think that it is only reasonable to encourage folks to have a days rest. I know I don't want to be a slave driver asking people to work 7 day weeks. How anyone could suggest such a thing is deplorable.
I also have no desire to convert to Judaism, only to observe the commandments that apply to Jews with the aim of becoming priestly, as Torah says that the Jews are to be a "nation of priests." What I am not sure about is whether or not Judaism is serious about turning away potential converts, not whether potential converts are serious about converting to Judaism. I think the answer in both instances is no. Judaism has yet to come up with a way to determine the sincerity of one's heart, and it should not pretend that it has.
I Guess Mother Earth Can Create A
Jew.
Chabad.org created flame
that changes people. At this website, I gain warmth study, as a person. Study
of Light is transforming knowledge. When one can stumble across various a
pattern associable with Light in one’s own life that leads one to Orthodox
Judaism as a truth, truth from the perspective of a Jew, then it is that a
superior being, mother Earth, may attempt to create a man how She sees fit with
respect to Jewishness, guiding his path down roads of transformation. It is
also especially that the Light is put on the internet, some will find it, and
pursue it, in the way bugs are attracted to a flame at Night. And, chabad.org
will have an impact on some of those human bugs, such that they may grow to
have a Jewish soul, actual transformation. There have been countless ways that
I’ve been pulled toward Torah, especially the Light of Torah, while none
evangelized. If one asked me who my mother was, I would have to say I was
mothered by Earth, as Earth is feminine.
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich
Rabbi Aryeh Moshen
Another thing that
strikes me is that I accept the Talmud, not as a Gd, but as a debate that is
open to questioning, and so far as I understand it that is all that Talmud
itself claims to be. That is, Talmud is a source of chabad, but that it is open
to questioning, and that new cases still present themselves, and that not every
case in Talmud was capable of being solved. Thus, with respect to this
following line: "you also must accept the Talmud and commentaries that say
that a child born of a non-Jewish mother is a non-Jew." while I do accept
Talmud, I also accept that it is questionable by nature, which therefore seems
to invalidate the comment in the quotations relative to this post.
Craig Hamilton
MA
Dear Rabbi Aryeh Moshen,
Thanks for the attention
but I fully fail to receive how this is relative to me, especially as a male,
“The Book of Ezra is quite explicit that the foreign wives AND THEIR CHILDREN
were sent away.” My wife is not Jewish to her knowledge, and neither am I. What
I am talking about is paternal ascent to having an affinity for observance of
Torah with respect to me. Rabbi, my mom hid my Jewish books. Rabbi, my mom
taught me, possibly by accident, that I should commit idolatry. I don't see how
maternal ascent is possible in my instance.
Craig Hamilton
MA
Dear Rabbi, Thank you
for taking the time to discuss this with me, and to have the courage to
proclaim desolate words, “I'm sorry,” for when I talk with my wife, she said
the following the other day about my mom: “I wish I could just say to your
mother, ‘Have you met someone? His name is Craig. You have no clue in the
slightest who he is, or what he is like, but he is your son.’”Sincerely,
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich
Jewish Moms or Jewish Culture
One thing that is
striking about Judaism is that one is required to have a Jewish mother, but in
the Torah, and books of Kings, etc, there is almost no discussion in the sacred
texts that would lead one to conclude the importance of having a Jewish mother.
Additionally, where the sperm is the smaller gamete than the egg, and that the
division of labor starts there, with the woman playing the far greater role of
raising these patriachs though going unmentioned; it leads me to think that it
is a more reasonable conclusion that one's Jewishness is very much a product of
his or her culture, especially his or her paternal culture, rather than the
maternal upbringing.
Craig Hamilton
MA
Jewish Moms or Jewish Culture
One thing that is
striking about Judaism is that one is required to have a Jewish mother, but in
the Torah, and books of Kings, etc, there is almost no discussion in the sacred
texts that would lead one to conclude the importance of having a Jewish mother.
Additionally, where the sperm is the smaller gamete than the egg, and that the
division of labor starts there, with the woman playing the far greater role of
raising these patriachs though going unmentioned; it leads me to think that it
is a more reasonable conclusion that one's Jewishness is very much a product of
his or her culture, especially his or her paternal culture, rather than the
maternal upbringing.
Craig Hamilton
MA
Matrilineal Descent
While I am fairly sure
that my mom is not Jewish, there is good reason to believe that matrilineal
ascent to Jewishness is at least usually correct. The reason for this is that
biologically we determine the male of a species versus the female of a species
by the level of work put in for the offspring. For example, that the sperm, the
male gamete is smaller than the egg is only the beginning of the differences in
how women spend more effort raising children. While my mom raised me, I did not
like her, but I liked my father and wanted to emulate him. Thus, in my case it
was as my father played far more of a role in educating me than my mom. I
stopped listening to the weird things my mom would say by 9th grade. My dad
however explained a good portion of the universe to me through science.
However, that was not enough for my dad was never able to impart the Light. Yet,
Gd spoke to me and did, and that is what attracted me to chabad.org
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich, MA
Why would anyone want to convert?
As the number of laws
given in the Torah increases, the average life expectancy of a patriarch goes
down. And, before you get on your high horse and knock the age of people like
Methusaleh or Serug as being mystical or something like that, understand that there
are people that today live to be the ages of the patriarchs in the Bible and
especially how absurd this would probably seem to someone living in the Dark
Ages whose life expectancy was only 25. That the ages we attain in modernity
are possible is yet another example (like the technological revolution) that we
are sampling the soup prior to the age of Mosiach. In fact, I read the other
day that a baby born today has a 50% chance of living to be 100yrs old. That is
to the person in the Middle/Dark ages the ages we attain now would have seemed
as mystical to them as the ages given when reading the Bible.
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich, MA
Elite Earthworms
Some people say that
converts blow away Jews by birth in observance. That is a horrible tone.
However, the Talmud does say, “How much more sincere the heart of the convert?”
A convert should feel connected to the Jewish people, not better. Also,
converts should expect some exclusion because most Jews are cousins. We tend to
be more altruistic toward people with similar genetics. Read the Richard
Dawkins book The Selfish Gene. Oppression would give you a whole new
perspective. Moses was the most oppressed prophet, and that helped him to be
compassionate even toward animals. If you believe Jews are elite, or that
converts are better, you should compare your ideas to that of the Baal Shem
Tov. He taught humans were no greater than worms. Biology tells us that our
ancient ancestors were worms. Jewishness is not about belonging to an elite
group. Read Habakkuk 2:4, and see how puffed up some of these commentators are.
How foolish is an idea of elite earthworms?
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich, MA
What's with downplaying key
Democrats?
What good is a brain
without any muscle? Jews need both. I agree that there is no smart choice in
politics, but yet some really smart people have been Democrats, and in fact
this makes joining the Democratic Party a good idea. Bill Clinton's IQ is over
160. People here are arguing as if Bill Clinton's intelligence or even still others
that the condition of his heart is related to the difficulty his conversion to
the Democratic Party. Jewishness shouldn't be an issue of brains, soul, or
muscle, but a combination of these things. I hate to speak ill of Stephen
Hawking, but for all his supposed brains he has not much when he contradicts
himself and certainly he could certainly use some muscle.
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich, MA
Religious Vote
Becoming Jewish should
be like voter registration, quick and easy. I happen to be a Democrat. It wouldn't
make me a better, more loyal, or more dedicated Democrat if the law made it
harder to become a Democrat. The only thing that would happen is that there
would be fewer Democrats, since it would be especially hard to register to this
party. You probably even lose pro Jewish people this way. In my opinion, it
just creates more confusion when people aren't able to join the political party
or religion of their choice easily. Every time a Rabbi tells me that I am not a
Jew, I feel as if I, a Democrat, were handed the Republican primary ticket, and
denied my proper chance to vote in the primary of my choice.
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich, MA
Re: Steve
I disagree that the idea
of quasi has to become one thing or another and that it is the anti-thesis of
Torah. The world is ripe with quasi-Jews looking for a place to socialize. This
is partly due to how popular the Tanach is and literacy. Consider how many
people support Israel and how unpopular Christian fundamentalism is in the
highly educated North East. Many people not classified as Jews are hungry for a
religion that is both about a Jewish G-d and contains the ethic of the Law of
Moses. I believe if such a religion were started, then it could last the test
of time even if members never officially converted to Judaism because in my
experience it is not the Tanach holding people back, but it is Jewish culture
that seems a little scary.
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich, MA
Joachim
1. That's interesting
that you deny quasi, as if G-d never created a hermaphrodite or something
similar. Why can't quasi be a level? For me, quasi or shades of grey is how I
see most things. Take for instance chemicals in chemistry, all have a purity
rating.
2. Personally, it’s not fun study for me to study as Bnei Noach, as if I should
find joy knowing that as a gentile I need not be set free from slavery by the
Torah. If that's not bigotry I don't know what is! On the other hand, I don't
believe immersing in the mikvah will help me become a more ethical person. Yet,
I study Judaism because there is so much good ethics! I hope not to throw out
the baby with the bathwater.
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich, MA
Re: Hanalah
Righteous gentile
doesn't sit well with me. I love the Torah for the most part, but parts of it
don't sit well with me. To me this makes me quasi-Jewish because I never sealed
the deal and I have no plan to.
One thing that doesn't sit well with me is that the Torah is bigoted to
gentiles. For example, there is the Law to feed or sell something that dies of
itself to a gentile. To me it wouldn't make any sense for me to eat that, as I
keep kosher as much as possible. It does not bother me that this I do this of
my own will and that it is not something that G-d ordained. I am not alone either;
masses of people think like me, but don't use the word. For example, many
people would support humane slaughter of meat if they knew that is part of what
kosher means.
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich, MA
Quasi-Jewish Is Not a Lie
All the indicators say
that there is such a thing as quasi-Jewish, only the Orthodox minority
denominations have the audacity to say quasi-Jewish is a lie. Gentiles commonly
circumcise their young, and perform other Jewish mitzvahs. The 613 and the
rabbinical commands are kosher for anyone, and it is hardly a tragedy if a
gentile doesn’t properly perform a Jewish mitzvah. In the melting pot of
America, Judaism is no longer as separate from other nations as it has been.
Jews that don’t recognize “quasi-Jewish (more than Noah tzedeks)” are hijacking
Judaism. Of course Jewish and Jewishness can exist as they have, but
quasi-Jewish should be accepted for those people that feel a strong association
with the Jewish tribe, but haven't been in the mikvah.
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich, MA
Israel: Orthodox and Reform
What is Orthodox, but
taking religion and history more seriously than another denomination? Every Jew
should study Orthodox Judaism. In the manner of study, I believe Orthodox
Judaism is better, but I don't believe it is practical that a minority of Jews
should be able claim monopoly on conversion. This hypocrisy becomes apparent in
the Law of Return for Israeli citizenship that accepts Reform conversions, as
Orthodox Jews deny them at the synagogue. Good enough to be Israeli, but not
good enough to be Orthodox is a contradiction. It follows that Israeli law is
for practice, but Orthodox law is for study.
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich
Ger vs. Bnei Isreal an
"Ism" unto Itself
Trying to ascertain the
Talmudic castes: whether or not someone is a goi, a ger, bnei Israel, or a
Cohen is an "Ism" unto itself. I imagine many mistakes are made. It
would make more sense to simply answer the question, "Who is a Jew?"
with "One that says they are a Jew." That is the position Felix Posen
took at Jpost.com (Aug 13, 2009). So much time is spent on, "Who is a
Jew?" a matter of birth rather than ethic. I would suggest that if more
time was spent on ethic, Bnei Noach would walk out the door, and no mistakes
would be made ascertaining, "Who is a Jew?"
Craig Hamilton
Sandwich
